258: Don Munson Podcast

August 26, 2022

Don Munson: The voice of the Clemson Tigers tells how he rose to the top of the broadcasting game.
Listen to “Don Munson: the voice of the Clemson Tiger tells how he rose to the top of the broadcasting game” on Spreaker.

Show Transcript

Hey, everybody’s Mark Pattison. I’m back again with another edition of finding your summit, all about people overcome university and finding their way. I’ve got a great guest coming out today. Look forward to talking to you. But before we get there, let’s jump to my website really quickly. WWW dot mark pattison, NFL DOT COM. A lot of stuff going on there. Of course, the Demi Award winning best picture that the NFL put on searching from the summit. You can see it there. That’s number one. Number two is I just got off this amazing climb down in the titons to climb the grand we took an all out effort to make that happen, but that’s so I can prep for next month over in Shamani, France and zormont climbing the infamous Matta Horn. So there’ll be more updates on that on the website. And then, of course, I’ve got over two hundred and seventy podcast of really inspirational people down amazing things, like my guests. That’s gonna come on today and we look forward to having you guys. Come on listen to some of these different people and if you would please give a ratings and review and, as always, I continue to raise money for higher ground through my campaign called Amilia’s Everest of all funds go directly to higher ground. Higher Ground Helps empower other people. My daughter, Amelia, has epilepsy, so we continue to fight for her and other people like that.

So on that note, let’s jump in today’s great guest. His name is Don Munson. Don, how you doing? I’m good, Mark. I appreciate you having me on. So I’m not a professional doing this. You are not. I don’t know about necessarily podcasting, but you’ve been to the broadcasting business for a long time. We’ve got a fantastic mutual friend, Eric stelter. Eric, if you’re listening, thank you very much for connecting us. Um, but I heard that you were over at his place in Montana and you guys probably saddle up and ride in the range and and uh, I just got a little goose bumps in terms of Um, wanted to try to get you on the podcast because, number one, Um, you’re a friend of Eric’s, but as important, if not more important, your career path has taken you to the broadcast booth, broadcasting for the Clemson Tigers, baseball, football, basketball, and what a program to be associated with. So number one, I want to go back and you know, really understand how you got into this field. You know what was the impetus for you wanting to become a broadcaster being involved in sports. Well, it goes all the way back to college for me and probably, like a lot of our career passed us, it really started in college. Um, my first year in school I went to a small school over in Bristol, Tennessee, called King College. was there my freshman year. Then transferred to Appalachian State in Boo North Carolina, and so that my sophomore year there. As I transfer over, my roommate at that time was a very close friend that I had in high school, Guy Named Mike Gore, and so Mike and I decida we’re gonna room together. He was coming in. He also transferred in after a freshman year. So we we pile up his roommates and early on in the in our first semester there, he says, Hey, I’m gonna go to this student radio station meeting that they’re having, you know, their student radio station on campus, and it was all student run, with some faculty input and that kind of stuff. So he said, man, I think you have to come to this. I think that you would that you would really enjoy that, you would really like it. I had been involved in in kind of like drama, uh and that kind of things throughout grade school and even high school, so I was used to being on stage and being in front of people. But that’s where the love affair started. Was My was my sophomore year. Man, I got into it and you know, it was it wasn’t a business major at the time. It didn’t take me long to switch over to communications and off I went and off I started, uh, you know, kind of learning as a as a baby chick pushed out of the nest. You know, you you you your first year of fledgling and then, you know, you go through your uh, your your puberty stage and become an adult in it. And now I’ve been doing it since, really on a professional basis, since so, of course, the name of this podcast is called finding your summit right and I think you know in anything that I found at least, and you know, whether it’s been in the NFL, or mountain climbing or being involved in sports, illustrated, you know, it’s really trying to think big and you know. So I was listening to that story and you you start with a small little time of school, your freshman year, and then you move up to Appalachian State, Um, and, and still that’s still, as you know, because you’re in it now, it’s still not part of the power of five, right. And so tell me about the way that Um, you know, a kid who wants to jump into the communication field and potentially brought broadcast and be involved in sports. But how did you visualize? You know, were there any mentors out there that that gave you the tools to really think big? And I think that’s part of you. Know anything when you do something grand, is that you’ve gotta you’ve gotta look out there, you’ve gotta have the Vision, you’ve got to see where you’re going to really understand the path that that it takes, in the hard work and the grind that’s gonna require for you to get to that spot. Yeah, for for me it started in my household. To be perfectly honest. I had great parents, a great mother and father. I mean just tremendous uh mom and dad. They’re both now gone. My Dad passed away in twelve mother just passed away just last year, in August of last year. But you know, they they always, you know, told me that they believed in me. They always told me they were proud of me. They always loved up on me, no matter, no matter what kind of trouble I got into, no matter what I did. They were they were disciplinarians, don’t get me, don’t get me wrong, but they they did it in a way to make sure that they loved up on me. You know, sometimes we as parents, you know that the thing it drives me craziest about today’s parents is that they want to be their child’s best friend, that that’s that’s not what you’re there for. You’re you’re there to be their parents, and sometimes loving up on again means that you have to discipline and means you have to discipline them hard. Uh. So, I mean, you know, I didn’t come up in a household where guys were beating me with a belt or anything like that, but I had disciplined in my life. But more, but more importantly, I had parents that loved me. Uh they and they did it through a Christ centered uh love for for me. My Dad was a Presbyterian pastor. Mother was, you know, was pastor’s wife, and so uh, but that’s where it started for me. Then when I got into high school I had an English teacher, guy named Tom or Thomas, now passed away, but as I was going through and doing all the drama stuff and was getting fairly good at that performing on stage, he was he was a guy in particular my junior and senior year in high school that really helped and lead me and kind of, you know, develop at least my speaking aspect and how to control my voice and and all of that kind of thing. And that’s certainly important in the broadcast business. And then once I got into the broadcast business, it sell. It was it was really kind of a plethora of people that that was just across it always kind of had an influence. There was when I was at APP. I was a play by play voice at APP from eighty four to ninety one. There was a gentleman that was the commissioner of the Southern Conference. Clemson with arts COMMIS. APPALACHIA state was in the southern conference at that time. But the guy that was the commissioner was Dave Hart senior. You may know Dave Hart Jr. Dave Hart Jr was former Athletic Director Um at Florida State. He was. He was at Ben at Tennessee. But Dave, uh, he was an a D at Missouri. Probably when you were playing ball at Washington. Dave Hart senior was the was the a D at Missouri and then uh kind of moved up the ranks. But Dave always always showed a lot of confidence in me, even as a student at appalache and and then afterwards even as I was as I was taking over. So those are kind of some foundational guys with there obviously have been guys in the business. I mean Gary Hawnt at NC state is a really close brother of mine. Just just a tremendous in there. Johnny holiday at at Maryland. uh, Johnny is is a guy that I think is the only guy I know as a broadcaster that’s in. He’s in the rock and Roll Hall of fame. He was Casey Cayson before Casey Cayson was Casey Cayson. That’s that’s who. That’s who johnny was. So He’s in the rock and Roll Hall of fame. It’s been at Maryland now and he’s he’s in his early eighties and still broadcasting away there. But then it’s just a bunch of other guys inside the League as as I got into inside the A C C, that have also helped me out. A GUY named Steve Martin in Charlotte that I first kind of worked with. There was a Mike, Mike Hogwood as well, who worked inside of the League before he passed away. So I’ve had a lot of good people around me from a broadcast standpoint that it kind of helped build. And then, of course, the man here, the voice of the Clemson Tigers. It will always be the voice of the Clemson Tigers, gentleman by the name of Jim Phillips. Uh, you know, for when I first joined Clemson in ninety four Jim lived to two thousand and three. So that period of time he was a really great mentor to me and and help me prepare for this position that I’m in now. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, you know, again, let’s go back to the first thing you talked about, which was I asked about, you know, your mentors, and the response that you add was your parents, right, and if just there’s more parents that stuff together, with more parents who would, with the power of positivity, that really you know, pushing their kids in the right way with the right kind of discipline. I don’t know any person that I’ve ever been around that didn’t, at the end of the day, really appreciate that discipline, because they set the ground rules and then you went out there and then you achieved whatever you’re trying to achieve. You know, it might just be tense, you know, a hundred yard sprints and you know, and under a certain time and and it’s hot and sticky, you know, on the football field and the coaches pushing you. I played Don James, very hard, poor disciplinarian, you know, the type of thing. And I too grew up with two amazing parents who I was very fortunate in that way that just, you know, they never said you can’t do this, that the world can’t never, ever, ever came up in their vocabulary. Um, and so there’s other people too, but but the bottom line is I think that we all need and the second thing you’re talking about, I think, is just the power of networking and I think that’s that’s one of the things that people are short sighted about because in the amount of people. You know, you talked about Missouri Um, one of my coaches. He was actually my my wide receiver coach. I was a wide receiver in high school. I was at in college, well, in the NFL, in high school, all the way through Um, but it was Gary Pinkel. Gary Pinkel later went on to Missouri, you know, just tremendous success at the University of Missouri. Now he is retired, but you know, all these people seem to shift, to move around. My best friend is Jim Moore. He just got hired by Yukon right and so it’s just all the world of maneuvering and this guy goes over there and this guy, but he remembers. It’s because you’re good to those people and then recognize your talent and that sometimes can propel you to where ultimately you want to go. In your case, you know, you go from Little Appalachian State. You’re broadcasting there from what ninety one, something like that, and you know you’re cutting your teeth, you’re cutting your chops, you’re learning how to do this. Meanwhile you’re meeting other people. Those schools are going to other schools around the conference and playing each other and you’re getting to know those other people, your counterparts of what you do. Um and again it just spreads out like a like a Web, and ultimately you land at Clemson, and I mean I’ve never been there, UM, and I’ve only heard about the death valley. It’s just an amazing spot. You’ve won a couple of national championships. Now you’ve got an amazing coach, amazing program. What has that been like for you? Uh, it’s been a blessing, first and foremost for for me, you know. Um. So the way that I ended up at Clemson I’m subbing on a firm and university broadcast Inman, is just up the road from US UH in in Greenville, South Carolina. But a buddy of mine was to play by play voice. He had to be in Texas for something and he called me. He said Hey, could you come in and and do a football game? And I was it was a solo day. I mean there was no commentary, there was no color guy or anything, no sideline reporters. So I said yeah, I’ll be be glad to come in. So then, like I do that on a Saturday and then the next Monday or Tuesday, the people at Clemson, the guy that was running the network for Clemson, they also they ran Furman’s network, but they heard me and they asked me, you know, hey would you come and meet with us and you know what, we’d like to talk to you about possibility of being part of the clemson broadcast in the ninety four season. So came down and met with them and you know it, that’s where it started for me at Clemson and it was again networking. Never burn a bridge, never burn a bridge. I’m just telling you. Know, young students come to me here at Clemson all the time and you know, how do you do this? How do you get into it? The most important aspect is going to be people that you know, your your resume. I think when you get out of college you think it’s about your resume. Mark You, and I know better than ever it’s not about your resident. It’s about who you know, what you do, how how you go about doing your work. Uh. That is the biggest thing. That is your selling point. That will make people believe in you. Uh, and I firmly believe that. You know, I’m now sixty, so my best days, dude, my best days are still ahead of me. I’m excited to see. You know what’s in store for me, even as I, you know, even as I hopefully have another twenty years of doing this and if I do then, you know what, I’ve still got bigger and better things that that are ahead of me and I’m really looking forward to that, really am and clawing to see, you know, what God is gonna do in my life, how he’s going to go about operating it. But I know he’s got something. I know he’s got something special for me, and it may be still just staying here at Clemson, but something tells me I think there’s something bigger than that. Yeah, I, I, I believe. You know, first of all, were the same age and best number one. Number two is I have the same philosophy. I think that you know the game as this story to begin there was a movie that saw not too long ago in Netflix and it was called the camera, was called ride or something that was about the life of Jake Burton. Jake burden was this founder of really the SNOWBOARD board industry. Um, you know, way back when where there was no snowboard, there was a plank of wood in the in the in the shed, and he got a pair of old tennis shoes and nailed them, you know, to the to the to this plank of wood and then, you know, jumped in the shoes and then went down this hill and that was like the first snowboard that was invented. And so it goes on and it shows his trajectory of life and how the whole snowboard industry really blew up and very super successful, you know, a very wealthy guy, and he gets around sixty and and some of these people are saying, and he went to this bout accouncer and some of these people came up to and he said, you know, hey, jake, why don’t you slow down? And he turned around and said to him, and maybe it’s Harme for you to speed up, you know, because I’m not slowing down right. Same type of philosophy, like still a whole lot of life. Now, at the end of the day, he passed away from cancer in the second bout, but you know, his whole mentality of life. You know, there’s still a life. You don’t have to get to some age, and in this case you and I are both sixty, that you have to slow down and pull back the throttle and just go out the pasture. You know, no way right. Um, and I believe the same thing, which there’s a whole bunch of just amazing things that are still out there, but you have to step into it. You just can’t wait for these things to drop in your lap. You know you have to be aggressive and you have to stay after it and you have to look for things, um to make that work. I want to talk to you about your relationship with Davia Sweeney. To me he’s a he’s a really interesting guy. I’ve been around all sorts of coaches right and he really seems to lead from kind of a faith based um point of positive positivity. You see coaches, some negative coach down, some positive coach up, and he seems to definitely be in that second wave, within the same confines of of being very disciplined and having high standards for what he wants, otherwise he wouldn’t have had the kind of success he’s had. What has your experience been with him? Well, obviously coach Sweeney shows up here in two thousand and three as a as a wide receivers coach. Tommy Bowden, that then head coach at at Clemson, hires him at that time coming into the Oh three season, and you know he had been on staff at Alabama. Obviously he played at Alabama under gene stallings, won a national championship there as a player but was on staff and then the staff that he was, that he was part of, got let go. He thought that he was going to be part of the news staff that was coming in there, but the coach that was he was kind of promised a job, as a matter of fact, and then the coach made a change, had a change of heart and let him go. So he went into the real estate business for a while, was very successful there. was completely out of football when Tommy called him UH to come here to to Clemson and, thank you know, thank goodness is he did. So he takes over midway through the O eight season. We coach Bowden resigns and there’s what six games left that are that are in the season. CLEMSON’s kind of kind of floundering. But man, it doesn’t take him long to to just change, to change the way that they were doing business inside the football offices, running practices, playing games. That the mindset that they came into two games with. So he goes four into he actually became the first head coach since nineteen seventy to post a winning record when he took over mid season for for a program. He was the first coach to do that since nineteen seventy and so Um, you know. Then he gets he gets the full time GIG and then it’s off and running. Takes his his first in his first full season. He’s off to an a C C championship. Loses to a Georgia Tech Team, a game in which neither team punts. It was just a scoring bonanza that that happened and actually is probably one of those games that have Clemson had twenty more seconds, they probably win that game because neither team could stop the other. But then, you know, to see what has happened since then. He called me, Um, in June of two thousand and ten to ask to ask me if I wanted to be part of his staff, and so I worked for him for for four years now. I’m a broadcast. Yeah, I’m a broadcaster, you know. But but he wanted a guy to come in and control the marketing and messaging of the football program and help him kind of like with with his calendar, control his calendar. He affectionately called me his handler. I was, you know, that I had I had a title that was, I think was director of creative media. I think is what my my title was the time, but it was it was also watching over all social media. Now this is two thousand ten right. You know, twitter had just come on board when he hired me. So twitter was just starting. FACEBOOK had been out there for a little bit. There was no instagram or anything like that, but he had enough for sight to understand right what social media was going to mean not only to his program but also to his players. I was to watch all the social media of the years, uh, and and that type of thing. So that’s where it started for me and then I worked four years for him. A new athletic director came in and then that’s when he came knocked on my door and follow the two thousand thirteen. You know when when the headman comes into you, I mean you, you know when when the CEO of your corporation comes in and he closes the door to your office and you’re it’s you’re sitting in your office and you’re thinking, uh, you know, here here it goes, and that’s not good. And he looked at me, and this is Dan Reddick Covidch, now the a D A at Miami. But he looked at me said, don where do you see yourself in a year? And I looked right back at him with that hesitation. I went employed and he would have a very good answer. UH So. But that was at that time that they talked about moving me over to the play by play side. I’m now fifty, you know, and I thought it was over for me from a from a broadcasters stampoint, don’t you don’t get these opportunities at a power five school, you know, to do this thing. And clemson was beginning it’s run to start to climb to the top of things. That has come off, obviously the UM. Later that year they would beat Ohio state in the Orange Bowl and a BCS women. So that’s where, you know, things really started. But getting a no coach now and working with him as close as I do, uh, you know, he’s he’s as genuine at everything you see. I think if people think it’s an act, it’s not. It’s it’s the genuiness of William Christopher Sweeney that makes him who he is. But he is. He may be the most competitive guy I’ve ever met. I mean he there’s competition in everything. When they built the new football facility it was all yes, it was all centered around comfort level and meeting space and but it was really built around competition. You walk into every phase of that building. There’s competition that’s going on, and so that’s that’s the biggest part, you know. And he he has this, he has this uh slogan best as a standard. That’s the standard that he has for Clemson. CLEMSON’s best, not somebody else’s best, Clemson’s best. You give me your best today, whatever that best is. If you think that you can, after the day has done and you come to me and say, you know what, I gave you my best, I’ll accept that. But he’ll also hold you accountable. He takes that you haven’t given your best, that there’s more in you and more to give. So that’s the thing that that makes him. But he is he’s one of the most you know, he’s just most, one of the genuine people that you will ever meet, and I think that’s what helps cells clemson because it’s it’s not about anything else, it’s about Clemson. I mean, I’m sure that Don James coached you the same way at Washington. It’s not about the opponent, it’s about us. It’s about what we do on the field, how we go out and execute, how we take care of our business, not only here on the field but in the classroom. When Clemson has had its best years. It’s when the is when Clemson football has had its best G P S. that’s just the facts. That’s just the way that when they take care of business off of the field and they usually take care of business on the field. So there’s a lot of that. That’s all incorporated with what coach Sweeney does. Yeah, you know, I got to play for all Davis and his motto is commitment to excellence. It’s the same type of thing. And again, it’s it’s really it’s it’s thinking big. It’s not commitment to good or average, it’s commitment to excellence, which is about as high as you go. Right, and all that. And then the other thing that you were talking about is be your best and and John wouldn’t always talked about be at your best when your best is required. Right. And one of the things I’ve found is just when you think like this, last weekend, right, I did this crazy climb and climbed the Grand Teaton. I saw your video. I watched that all it was my scouting report on you. Man, listen, it hurt. It was sixteen miles, eight thousand vertical. I mean when I did evers last year. You know, that’s a three on Summer Day from the twenty six thousand Um feet. That’s a three thousand foot prush, which is like it took me eighteen hours to do that and it took me like sixteen hours to get this done. I mean it was it was hard and hard things are hard. But but the one thing that that even though I was hurting, you I was coming down, I was completely spent and exhausted, and it’s really physical because all this climbing stuff, like spider man, going on the side of these is these big rocks. But even when I thought I was out, you know if there was more, there was still more in the tank. And so when you start talking about your best, your you know, the commitment to excellence and things like that, you know it’s just getting those people to believe that, even though you think that there’s a level, there’s another level beyond that level, and it seems like Dabo has been able to really tap into that. And the other thing that you’re talking about is, you know, his his his credibility within the building and there’s no question that at the end of the day, even though he might be a phenomenal coach like just like I think Jim Moore is um he’s still got to get the players. The players are the players that and you’ve got to put them in a position to win and and there’s no question that he’s been able to go out there and recruit some really top notch talent. Also, they have to be bright and they have to be smart and they have to understand the place and that you’re talking about being reflected with the G P A s to the success on the field. There’s no question that there’s parallels and all this stuff, but you’ve got to get the players. You don’t get the players, you have a couple of bad recruiting classes, you get a little bit lazy and it’s hard not to be because you have to constantly be on the road and grinding, grinding, grinding to bring in those top nights talent Um to be out there. That takes a lot of self discipline. There’s no question that Dabo has that kind of motivation to bring in those types of players, no doubt about it. It well, you know at all? I mean right behind me, you know back that wall is really featuring two national championships. That’s that’s right there behind me. The way that he recruited for those classes was completely different than the way that he recruited when he when he first took over on a full time basis, going into that Oh nine season at an oh nine, he’s selling a dream. I mean when he got Taj Boyd to come here and play at quarterback, he was Taj, you and I together we can do this, we can begin the building blocks of something in this program here at Clemson. But know, when he’s recruiting these guys and the guys that he has on the team right now now, it’s totally different. I mean he’s he’s recruiting the best of the best, because the best of the best one to come and play now at Clemson. They want to come and play where they can have success, where they can go to a playoff win championships. I mean, you know, as a player, that’s what sells it. That’s what sells it to you. Mom and dad’s you know, a little bit different. But for the players, you know, we’re gonna make their own decisions about where they goes. That’s the way that it gets sold here a Clemson and and it has to be a certain type of guy that fits in here at Clemson. Sweeney is is great. Sweeney can size up a recruit in about ten minutes whether or not this is gonna be a fit here a Clemson, whether this guy is gonna fit and, as he likes to say, a little old Clemson, um, but little old Clemson, you know, grows to well over a hundred thousand people on a home football weekend and it’s fanatical. I mean it’s a frenzy. That’s that’s happening in memorial stadium in Death Valley on those seven Atiti is where they get to play. But you know, it’s it’s amazing to sit back and watch the way that he has built this program. I never will forget my first year, two thousand ten on the staff. We lose to south Florida in the minikey Car Care Bowl in Charlotte, North Carolina, right so to finish at six and seven on the season, and he walks right into that, into that press conference atterwards, and he just looks at the media members and he says, guys, this isn’t in the way that we wanted to. This season didn’t go the way we wanted to it. But I’m telling you right now I’ve seen enough in this season to understand that Clemson is about to embark on its greatest decade ever in football. And now I asked that question. Raise your hand if you believe William Christopher Sweeney when he made that statement in two thousand and I when I’m speaking to alumni group, you know hardly anybody, but he had to belief in himself and he had the vision in himself to see and what he has built here at Clemson now is a is a perennial power and they will be a threat. Rank number four in the preseason polls. So they’re gonna be a threat to be right back into playoffs again and then hopefully an opportunity to make it to L A and play for a national championship. Yeah, so let’s step out a Clemson for a minute and and I want to talk to you about this whole shift in college football right now and your opinion on where you think this is going. You know, UM USC and U C L A just left for the big ten Um. They were in the pack twelve for forever right Washington, My home school has been there forever as well. They’re probably probably part of the original founders of that. That conference used to be the pack eight. They wanted to pack ten when I used to play in now at this pack twelve. And so you know, the question is, you know what happens to I don’t know if Washington, Oregon and the two next dominoes or we start adding other teams into our conference. I’m not sure this is all going to play out, but it just seems like, at the end of the day, like could there be a scenario where there’s just no conferences, there’s just everybody’s basically an independent and lining up games to play? I’ve been under the I mean I’ve been preaching this for about the last ten years. It’s I’ve I really believe that we’re splitting off and we’re gonna see a group of schools, whatever you call it, a group of five, whatever you’re gonna call it, but somewhere between sixty four to eighties schools, they’re gonna split off from the N C a A. They’re going to form their own governance body. Yes, there will be conferences, yes, there will be divisions across the United States, but those schools then in football, will probably have an eight team playoff to to begin with, and then it grows from there to twelve and then probably the sixteen, something along those lines, but then they’ll have their own individual national championships. Everybody will be eligible for basketball, everybody will be eligible for baseball, whatever the Olympic sport is. Everybody’s gonna be eligible for soccers, all that kind of stuff and they’ll play it all. The reason that I say that is because when you just, you know, look at who the media rights owners are, the the espns of the world, the foxes, the NBC. Now, obviously the new deal that was just cut with a big ten. They’re talking seven eight billion dollars, and it’s really across three different networks that are all combining together. Why? Because those networks understand Washington, Michigan, Clemson, Texas. Those draw eyes and the magic number for television execs right now, if you don’t know, is four million. If you can get to the point where there’s four million eyes on your product in college football right now, then that is that that’s out of the norm right. That’s really it’s about three million, but four million, man, you get a four million, that’s not a norm. You know most of these you know saying you have, you know, say Washington and U C L A are playing on the west coast. You know, they may get two million eyes, they may get a million eight, maybe a million five, it could crest, you know, depending upon those teams are ranked, and maybe two point eight. But they don’t get the east coast viewership because probably they’re playing at night and so they lose a lot of things that that are east of the Mississippi. So so how do you how do you get all this stuff? How do you get the big numbers together? And the way you get the big numbers together is by putting the best of the best on the field together. And so that’s where it’s headed. I mean I don’t think there’s any doubt that that is. That’s where it’s headed. Yeah, and then has really lost all the credibility in terms of absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean who needs them? I mean look, look at look at just what happened last week, Mark. I mean there the N I l and the N C A is reaching out to to their schools and say hey, we need your help. Will you turn people in? That’s not gonna happen. I mean it’s just not gonna, not gonna happen. I mean so they’re they’ve lost touch, they’ve they’ve lost uh, they’ve lost credibility, like you said, and and so and it’s a difficult thing, but we’re in and we’re in a changing world. From from that standpoint, in the sports world in I L has certainly played into it. Named image likeness has certainly played into it, and even that’s going to change. And I don’t think that you know really the first year that we’ve had in I l last year. When you go back and you look at the last twelve months, I don’t think that it went near like any of us thought it was going to me and we had kids that were signing million dollar deals at schools and then I got my money and I’m out of transferred. Obviously, it just happened in L S U. UH, Moles Brennan just leaves the program but he walks away with a couple of million dollars in his pocket because that in I L S if is not tied to his performance on a football feed. So I think that, you know, people have got to learn sponsors and particularly have got to learn who they signed and how they go about it. I think I was about forty years too late in my career, but anyways, all right. So who do you guys kick off with here in a couple of weeks. Uh. Well, we have Georgia tech on Labor Day night. That will be in the Mercedes Dome in Atlanta, beyond national television, so it’ll be an eight o’clock game, so you’ll be able to see us there. And then, you know, we kind of open up with Georgia Tech, come home play firm in the next Saturday. So a short week to get ready for for Furman and then the week after that it’s Louisiana Tech. Then we start getting into it. A CC season will open for us on the road at wake for us. N C state will come here the week after that. So kind of back to back. But I think we’ll be ranked teams for for Clemson right there. So we’ll kind of know a lot about this, this football team. Once we get into really the second week of October we should know a bunch about Clemson. Love it, love it. Hey, where can people find you? Well, people can find me. If you want to find me on twitter, it’s W at W Donald Munson there. Uh, Instagram is just at Don Munson. UH, their facebook. I don’t take many facebook requests anymore because I’ve just facebook has gotten to the point where is it really you that’s asking me to be a friend, or is it somebody that’s copying you? And you know, my my thing is gonna get hacked. But so, but you can. You can find me there. So that’s that’s kind of where. Obviously, our website here at Clemson athletics is Clemson Tigers Dot Com, and you’ll find me doing some things that are there. So that’s that’s where I can be found from from that standpoint. Love it, love it. There is the king tiger, all right, there is the one, the only, Don Munson, Don. Thank you so much for coming on, mark, certainly do appreciate it. Uh, just let me. I’ll leave your folks with with this. Let me tell you. Believe in yourself, because you can do anything you want. I mean you can. There’s nothing is impossible. Never say it can’t be done, because it can be done. Mark will tell you that. I’m going to tell you that and then also find something to hold your anchor into form. For me, it’s a belief in Jesus Christ. It’s a belief in what God has done for me through his son, his Holy Spirit leaves at me. But you know what, that’s that’s what I believe. You know, my job is to just profess that that belief. The Holy Spirit himself will will come and move upon you and and and work in your life and hopefully you can come to that belief as well. But believe in yourself. Believe that there is a guy that’s out there. The biggest lie in the world is the devil saying that I’m not I don’t exist. He does exist. This is an evil world in which we live and go find the goodness in it. Do good to others, serve others. Have that serve and attitude and you’ll do well in life. Alright, buddy, appreciate it. Take care. We’ll get this out too, as soon as possible. Thank you, brother. Okay.